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I do not understand this. Things like attack damage effecting the base were never an issue. The issue is solely with double dipping modifiers. I would have thought it would be smarter to just prevent double dipping stats from applying to the dot (e.g inc physical damage, inc fire damage), while still allowing dot modifiers to apply directly to the dot (e.g increased damage over time, increased physical damage over time etc). This game is always unnecessarily complicated.

They might not have been an issue but they also are not intrinsically important to the dot. It is now extremely simply to work out what your damage is going to be.
You have an ability that does damage and applies a dot.
The ability does (base damage * ability multipliers)
The dot does (base damage * base dot multiplier * dot multipliers)
It's that simple.
Let go of the 'it's different, so it's more complex' mode of thinking, and you'll be just fine. It's not more complex, it's actually a lot more simple. It requires you to know which multipliers affect the direct damage and which apply to the dot damage, but it always did.
On the plus side, you can now work out the dot damage without considering the ability damage at all, and the damage each portion does is more intuitive (most people aren't using to comparing numbers and thinking about the likely result quadratically, which is what double dipping requires).

It is more complex, to a serious stupidity level. Example, spell damage that increases your physical spell damage will no longer effect things like poison and bleed. Now wait, seriously a spell base that does physical damage loses its damage benefit for those ailments from any spell damage mod. Seriously stupid on so many levels. They should have just made them completely seperate mechanics all together, though then it just wouldn't make any common sense. Also because of this skills that get their damage mostly from wands and daggers will lose a shit ton of damage towards those ailments also, essentially making it pointless for spells in general.

Posted by
MasterAxe
on Apr 30, 2017, 4:20:12 AM

Can the ignite caused by a fire skill be supported by a gem, (ex. Inc Burning damage)?

Posted by
tyrnephthys
on Apr 30, 2017, 7:42:35 AM

Last edited by laminarija on Apr 30, 2017, 9:44:33 AM

Posted by
on Apr 30, 2017, 9:33:04 AM

One or two league too late GGG, atm 50% people are playing HoWA that is totaly broken.
Please destroy this claw that is so ridiculous.
Assuming u use 2 of these claws, 7 average damages for 2000 intelligence makes 1400 flat lightning damage, don't have to say more.
Need to put that into a trash

Posted by
Gryzorrr
on Apr 30, 2017, 12:28:52 PM

'

They might not have been an issue but they also are not intrinsically important to the dot. It is now extremely simply to work out what your damage is going to be.
You have an ability that does damage and applies a dot.
The ability does (base damage * ability multipliers)
The dot does (base damage * base dot multiplier * dot multipliers)
It's that simple.
Let go of the 'it's different, so it's more complex' mode of thinking, and you'll be just fine. It's not more complex, it's actually a lot more simple. It requires you to know which multipliers affect the direct damage and which apply to the dot damage, but it always did.
On the plus side, you can now work out the dot damage without considering the ability damage at all, and the damage each portion does is more intuitive (most people aren't using to comparing numbers and thinking about the likely result quadratically, which is what double dipping requires).

I might be out of touch with all the math here, but lets see.
Ignite/Poison/Bleed is considered to be percentage of your hit.
If you have a base fire damage if 100, a 50% inc spell damage and 50% inc fire damage, that's 200 fire damage. Let's say burn is 10% of base damage, that results in 10 burn damage +50% fire damage since spell damage does not affect burn damage. How is that a 10% of your initial hit, or am I missing something? How is that any better than just taking 10% of your hit (200 dmg) and then applying any dot multipliers (except regular multipliers that were already applied to initial hit like % inc fire dmg).

Posted by
on Apr 30, 2017, 1:06:49 PM

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Right now we have a complicated system (e.g some modifiers double dip, others do not. Takes a bit of research to figure things out when you are new to the game).
If I understand these changes correctly, the complexity shoots up further. Now, modifiers will be even more selective, often in non-intuitive ways (e.g fire damage still double dips. But now, something like attack damage will do nothing for bleed base damage.)
I do not understand this. Things like attack damage effecting the base were never an issue. The issue is solely with double dipping modifiers. I would have thought it would be smarter to just prevent double dipping stats from applying to the dot (e.g inc physical damage, inc fire damage), while still allowing dot modifiers to apply directly to the dot (e.g increased damage over time, increased physical damage over time etc). This game is always unnecessarily complicated.

ya exactly, why has this all become so convoluted and all over the place? Were removing double dipping... except were keeping double dipping, just making it a million times harder to understand but we think we might have got the damage potential to a reasonable place fingers crossed...
...seriously?
Cant you guys just actually remove double dipping? Remove it and let only dot increases increase the dots? Wouldnt that be far more simple to balance, far more simple for players to build around, open up far more build diversity because now all potential sources of poison, bleed and ignite are on an equal footing when it comes to scaling the dot rather than this fucked up system of double dipping that you guys are keeping?
I really dont understand why you guys are doing this, its pretty terrible for the game in many ways.

Last edited by Snorkle_uk on May 1, 2017, 6:12:50 AM

Posted by
on May 1, 2017, 6:12:30 AM

'

ya exactly, why has this all become so convoluted and all over the place? Were removing double dipping... except were keeping double dipping, just making it a million times harder to understand but we think we might have got the damage potential to a reasonable place fingers crossed...

Well it is not double dipping anymore, because the mods don't make themself more valuable. They just work on both parts (Initial Hit and DoT) but don't influence each other. But there is a big issue with that.
Exspecially as a melee it was not too hard to get some average bleeds in that helped a bit with damage. But since your melee physical damage doesn't scale bleeds anymore it is insanely hard to scale them. Right now if you skill EVERY SINGLE Node improving Bleeding on the tree your bleed would deal less damage with the new system as it does now on a regular melee not opting to scale bleed. Simply because it is so easy to get 600+ Inc. Melee Physical Damage. Bloodlust and Melee Physical Damage alone as supports provide about 140% inc. Melee Physical Damage with about 300% Inc. Melee Physical Damage from the tree and Strength you would be at 600+ Inc. Melee Damage already and it is easy to get more.
Regardless of what the actual mechanic is it basically destroyes DoTs, except maybe Flameblast which can scale DoT and Hit with multiple mods (Totem Damage, Fire Damage, Elemental Damage and Area Damage), but it will be a lot weaker as well. But almost all other DoTs get destroyed, exspecially Melee Poison and Bleed (although Melees were never able to scale those very well anyway).
Thing is all the Double Dipping builds are still the best builds for DoTs, but most of them are terrible anyway. Overall DoTs based on Hits are just dead for the next few patches, while DoTs with a fixed value will get buffed due to the changes. Exspecially RF and to a lower degree Scorching Ray and Fire Trap will get buffs, not sure if Essence Drain and Blight will be affected, because they are neither Poison, nor Bleed or Burn but if there are more generic DoT nodes it might help them as well.

Posted by
Emphasy
on May 1, 2017, 11:58:23 AM

did i hear a boost for SR?

Posted by
on May 1, 2017, 6:00:48 PM

They better put order in servers. We get d/c and when we come back to game, no loot in bag and map portals are gone. For a simple map is meh... but if you open Uber or Shaper and game d/c you like this, dosen;t matter if you are double dipping or mono dipping. Is frustating.

Posted by
Piftiuta
on May 1, 2017, 8:29:45 PM

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Reply to this forum post with any questions you have about damage over time mechanics or design, we'll be answering them in a third post in this series.

Will the change to the 'trap support' and 'remote mine support' gems (them only applying to hits) be reverted?
Are there any plans to adjust ascendancies based on poison/DoT?

No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!

Posted by
Zrevnur
on May 1, 2017, 8:51:48 PM